states that voted for barack obama over mitt romney last november. in other words the white house is defending on some of these blue-state republicans. that means if the white house can drive a wedge between the blue state republicans and the red state presence he might be able to get dicey piece of legislation through the house. >> john: it seems to be a strategy. where does the debt ceiling fit into this? it just ensures that we pay the bills that we already spent. why are they talking about the two issues as if they're the same? >> why do they do a lot of things. but the question as that vote approaches in february or march whenever it's going to be, there are two questions actually. number one will boehner let a vote happen as he did with the fiscal cliff. he did let that vote happen. rick pearlstein mentioned the rule that boehner broke that rule for the fiscal cliff. will he break that rule again knowing that it will only get a certain number of republican votes. that's a. and b, how many republican votes will it get it being a clean debt-limit